Creating a Unique Brand Story

Ian Paget: Business owners, they very often focus on things like products and sales, things that can seem tangible and actionable, and measurable. But you have your book, Brand Identity Breakthrough, you talk about how a unique story can make products irresistible. And I know, if you was working within a company, a business owner might not see story as an important thing. It's the type of thing that they could potentially just brush off as not anything of any significance.

So, could you share why storytelling should really matter to business owners?

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. Well, of course, it's only natural that business owners would want to focus on the aspects of their business that they're most intimately familiar with, which often means the numbers behind the business. So, the operations of the business. But that stuff is really very internally-focused. And storytelling in one form or another is the doorway between the world outside your business and the business itself.

Stories are how people, who don't know about your business, come to know about it. And it is the way that a relationship is developed between the customer and the business in one form or another. And if you don't pay very much attention to the story, you are putting out in countless different ways, or every way that your business is represented in the world, you're not really in control or even aware of how people relate to your business.

Ian Paget: That's so articulately put. And I'm hoping that that immediately convinces someone that a story is important. But expanding on from that, are there any other benefits to having a strong story that shares information about your business?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, having a good story is, in my opinion, the best way to also have uniqueness in whatever industry you're in. People talk about this concept called a unique selling proposition thrown around a lot in marketing circles and in business management. And I don't think that even people who like to talk about it often give it the weight that it deserves. Uniqueness goes well beyond just having some specific feature of the widget you sell that's different than the competition or having a lower price, or a slightly different functionality.

It's all in the way that people perceive the place your business occupies in the world and the place that occupies in their life. And a lot of that is emotional. A lot of it is intangible. A lot of it is difficult to put into words or images. But all of that in some way contributes to the uniqueness of your brand. And therefore, how people will choose to buy it and use it.

Ian Paget: Yeah, absolutely. I know when you compare companies like Apple versus Samsung, I mean, it's changed over the years. But originally, Apple's always been around the story and the emotional connection to the product, and what the consumer can do with that. Whilst other tech companies... I'm going to use Samsung as an example. But there's a lot of other companies that are doing this. They really push features and benefits, and all of the technical specifications of the product.

And you can really see the difference between the two. And I think that's very much the reason why Apple, over the last 20 years, or however long it's been since the iPhone came out, it's why I feel they are one of the most profitable companies in the world. And the reason why people are prepared to pay a premium. I mean, it's not just the story, but that's one huge element of that.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. And that's not to say that... like PC is Windows, is not hurting necessarily because they're different than Apple. They appeal to very different types of customers. So, the story that Apple is telling is quite different than the story that Windows is telling. But most people who have ever used a computer before are pretty well aware of whether they're a Windows guy or an Apple guy, or a Linux guy. Because all of those appeal to very different kinds of people.

Partially, just because of the functionality of them and the features of them. But also, partially, because of the story represented by each one, and how that appeals to what person they are. And that's great, because if there were a lot of overlap between them, then there'd be a lot of confusion in the marketplace, and a lot of unnecessary competition, and loss of sales and wasted resources.

Ian Paget: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, I think since we've highlighted the importance of story, I'd like to spend the bulk of this conversation, or most of the conversation depending on how long it takes to go through, talking about how to actually create this story. And I know that's something that your book goes into. And I'd like to direct people towards that to learn more about this. But I'd like to go through some of those principles in this interview, if you are happy to?

So, I think a straight-out question, how would you go about creating a story for a business?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, I don't really view it as too different than the way we go about telling the stories of ourselves as individuals. We all have a story that changes over the course of our lives. And a lot of it is quite arbitrary. And all of it, of course, is selective and curated. When people ask you about yourself, you don't tell them every detail of every memory throughout your life. You pick out certain details that are conventional for people to talk about that give people a sense of your place in the world, and what qualities you consider most important to your identity.

And that becomes the story of you. My name is Gregory. I was born in California. I work in this industry. These are my hobbies, and so on and so forth, right? That becomes your story. And we all get so used to relating to each other in this way that we forget that we're all just a bunch of walking stories interacting with each other. And behind that, there are real people having conscious experiences, of course. But the way we relate to each other is through these stories we tell about each other.

And so, why should that really be terribly different for a business brand? The business is just an extension of the people who make it up, right?

Ian Paget: Yeah. Absolutely. So, I mean, one big thing that comes to mind with that is, what happens in the situation where the company has a story that's just not very interesting? Or there is no real story to tell beyond, I don't know, start it to make money or something like that? How would you handle those situations when you're working with somebody that just lacks any element of story within their organisation?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, I certainly don't endorse outright lying and deception, and just being untruthful about what the business represents, and its values and all that. I don't endorse that manipulation. That seems to be so common in marketing. There's always some story. If you look hard enough, there's something to talk about. And it's not necessarily, well, how was the company started? Oh, well, I needed a way to make money, and this seemed like the easiest way to do it. So, I got started, right?

Yeah, that's not an interesting story. But there are stories of the people behind the business. There are stories of the place you see your product occupying in the world and the values it's supposed to represent. Because everything beyond the actual practical thing that it does has values associated with it, like a certain car. The actual physical feature of it might be that it has four-wheel drive and a high ground clearance, and lots of seats to fit your family and your cargo in, right?

That's the technical description. But what are the values associated with that? Maybe you like to go off-roading with your kids and your kayak, or something, right? So, there's a whole bunch of values that come to mind when you think of a car that has these features beyond just the description. So, that would be an example of a story. Here's what our brand represents and why the fact that this product exists, matters.

And also, maybe you're in an industry where you don't need that much of a story. Maybe it's possible you're in an industry where your customers really do just care more about technical specifications than values and emotions, and personality. Computers might be a good example of that. Going back to earlier, I think the average Linux user probably cares much more about technical specifications and so forth than the average Mac user. And that's reflected in how they use their computers.

So, that would be a good example where you don't necessarily need to emulate these really big famous brands and their stories just because you see that's what other companies are doing. What's appropriate for them is not necessarily appropriate for you even if you're in the same industry.

Ian Paget: And I know then, and within your book as well, one of the key elements to developing the story is, like I said then, is the value. So, rather than talking about the specific features, it's a case of communicating what the value of those features are. And within your book, there's a whole chapter talking about how people don't see the value of their own company. Could you share a little bit more about that as well, how you've noticed that business owners don't necessarily see the value of that product or service right away?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, of course, you're biased if it's your business. And that's true of anything you might ever create. If you're writing a book, you're going to be biased about the way the book is organised and the information that should be contained in it. If you're writing a song or painting a picture, same thing, because you're putting so much of yourself into it. You see what's going on behind the scenes. But your audience doesn't see that. They just see the final product.

They just see what's presented to them, and they see how they happen to use it in their life. So, you might be thinking that your product and your business are worthwhile for a certain series of reasons that are related to how you have tried to build your business. But maybe, at the end of the day, your audience has a completely different opinion that is not what you expected based on how you thought you were building your business.

And how would you ever know that if you didn't communicate with them? Beta testing of some kind is necessary in any creative endeavour, just to see if the perception of your core audience or target audience is aligned with your perception of the person behind the scenes trying to steer the ship. And I want to stress that it really is the perception only of the target audience that matters, because everyone everywhere has an opinion about something.

But if they're not people who are going to be your customers anyway, then why does it matter what they think about it? In the same way that if you were writing a science fiction book, you wouldn't ask for the opinions of people who read romance novels, "Do you think this is a good book?" Because they're going to be judging it by a completely different set of criteria than the people you actually want to be picking it up off the shelf, right?

And so, if you don't even know who your target audience is, the idea of people who should be buying your product, and you can't possibly know what their opinions are and how relevant they are.

Ian Paget: So, it sounds like here, one thing that companies need to do is they need to clearly understand who they're aiming to target. And based on that, that's when they can then do some user testing or some feedback, so they can actually hear directly from the people that will be using the product, how it makes their life different in some way.

Gregory V. Diehl: Sure. And it's not even just the product by itself in isolation, but it's in the context of every other buying choice your customer has, right? Because it's one thing if you put a product in someone's hand and see how they interact with it. But it's another if you're asking them to go in blind to a shopping mall and find your products appealing versus all the other ways they could be spending their money, competing products or not, right? How are they going to come to the conclusion?

Well, clearly, this is the one I've been waiting for all my life. I've been using these kinds of widgets for years. And always, always, I've had this problem that they just don't meet. And finally, here's this one saying, "We specifically designed our widget to do this thing better. I will pay double the amount for that widget, than I would for any other one." How do you know if you're creating that response to people if you don't know how they're comparing it to the other choices that they have, not just in isolation?

Ian Paget: Okay. So, I'm seeing so many more layers to this. So, it's not as simple as just sitting down and working out how you originally started. It sounds like you need to understand who your competitors are, so that you can define some USP. So, I want to go into all of these things individually because I think they all impact this overall story and the way that you eventually communicate it. So, I think probably, as a starting point, target audience sounds like it's something worth going into.

And from my perspective, I've been a graphic designer now for probably around 15 years now. I don't know where that time is gone, but it's been a while. And throughout that time, I've worked for agencies. I've worked on my own projects. And the bulk of people I work with, so the bulk of my clients that I've worked with, they don't always know who their target audiences. Or they wish to target everybody. How do you go about helping these companies define who they're aiming to target?

And how do you know that they are the right person that they should be targeting?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, I would start by asking a simple question like, "Who is the person who is qualified to get the full intended value of your product or service?" Right? There are probably lots of different kinds of people who could buy your product or service for one reason or another, and get some value out of it. And maybe even enough value to justify the price of your product. But who is the person who most closely, optimally matches everything you intended your product to be?

And will find the maximum amount of possible value out of it? Can you picture what that person is like and why they're in such a position to get so much value out of it?

Ian Paget: That makes it sound so much easier. I mean, if there was a handful of potential people, would it be just a case of understanding who that group of people are? Or would you really try to hone down on a description of one individual?

Gregory V. Diehl: It depends on what purposes it's for. If you're writing sales copy, it's probably a good idea to have an image of one person in mind, so you know how to word things, right? If that's helpful as a mental exercise, absolutely. But of course, it's never going to be just one person in real-world application. It's going to be a subgroup of people who share many types of qualities that are relevant to how they buy and use your product.

And if you think about it, it's a corollary of understanding the unique functionality of your product and the and the emotions you're supposed to be represented with your product. The better you understand your product and its place in the marketplace, by corollary, you could then assume, well, if we have this product that is unique in all of these ways and does these kinds of things better, we then can easily infer that this person would find it most useful, and vice-versa.

If you see what kind of person finds it most useful, you could then infer, well, what is it about it that they must like so much?

Ian Paget: And I know you mentioned about going out and speaking to this type of person. And I have done episodes on user research that does go into this in a little bit more detail. But how have you personally when you've worked on things like this, gone about specifically finding that type of individual to understand what it is about the product that they find valuable?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, nothing compares to real-world use statistics of course if your business is in such a position where it's been on the market for a while and you have actual data to analyse, and actual customers to talk to, that would be ideal. But if you're not in that position yet or you're making massive changes to your business, then you don't really have much of a choice but some controlled assessments.

Testing it against focus groups or beta users, or whatever is appropriate for what it is you're trying to do, making educated guesses based on that and whatever experience you do have in the field. And then, extrapolating from there. If you can find that there are people who really, really need a certain functionality and a product, and are really attracted to a certain story, and emotional values are presented, you can probably assume that there are more of those people out there.

And you only really need to be as successful as you are trying to stretch your business wide, right? You don't need to sell to every person in the world. You don't even necessarily sell to every person in the country you're in or even the whole state. It may just be a particular type of town that you sell in or a particular type of market. And so, if you understand the dynamics of that market, just keep assuming that there are more and more of those people that you already found some success with, and extrapolate from there.

Ian Paget: Okay. So, I think it's worth going into the USP. So, you mentioned that it's all very well having a story. But you need to consider it within context of who you will be compared within the marketplace. And I know from a visual identity perspective, that's definitely something that you would do because you would want to differentiate in some way. But from a brand perspective differentiated from them, how do you go about working out what that USP is?

Gregory V. Diehl: That's a difficult question, because of course, there are many variables that depend very specifically on the industry that you're in, in your type of product, in your market you're dealing with. But there are certainly universal principles at play that applies to everything you could ever create and put on the market. Often, it just comes down to... let's say you're already in a very well-established market. Because if you were literally the first person to come up with a particular type of product, obviously, by default, you have to be unique.

Because there'd be no one else doing what you're doing. But at the same time, you'd also probably have a very hard time getting the market to adopt your brand-new way of doing things. Even if it is objectively better, people just aren't used to thinking of using products in that way or spending their money that way. So, there's this barrier you'd have to overcome if you are truly the first to a market. But that's not most people's situation. Usually, what people are dealing with is a market that already has demonstrated consistent need from people.

And they just really need to do one thing better within that well-developed market, like a TV that has higher definition or better sound, or a flatter screen, or whatever. Because people already need TVs. We have many years of experience buying and using TVs, and there's no reason to think that will change anytime soon, right? So, let's assume that that's the industry you're in. Can you think of that one thing that you could do better that people actually want to be better about the way they're used to using your type of product?

Is it something as physical as like size or weight, or some physical way that they interact with the product? Or is it more about the personality behind... like if you're offering a service, for example, it's much more likely that people interact with the personality of your brand much more. They're on the phone with your customer service or your live representatives in a store, or people who go to their house to do some service, right? It may be as simple as the personality represented by, "We're more professional.

We're more kind and courteous. We're faster in the way we do our work. We're more thorough in the way we check for termites in your house." Or how many cafes and restaurants do you go to and have become your favourite, not because they serve the best food, but just the personality, this intangible thing represented by the people who work there? And the decor of the restaurant appeals to you for some strange reason that isn't as simple as how many calories are in the food or how healthy it is, or whatever?

All this stuff is what I call personality. So, it could be that right, right? Depending on the thing that you're selling and the primary reason that people use it, or interact with it. Can you find that one thing that you could do just a little bit better that people will identify as being better in that way?

Ian Paget: Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I totally agree with that. And I mean, if a company is going through this process, they're creating a story for their business. And they have the situation where they simply don't have a USP. In order for a story to work, is that something that they have to have? Do they really need to have something different to everybody else in order for a story to be successful?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, you can find success with almost anything to some degree. I'm just talking about doing what you can to optimise your chances of success, right? Lots of people just accidentally stumble into business success. They're making money, and they don't really know why. But it's not broke. So, don't try to fix it, right? But all other things being equal, if you can have a detailed, emotional, engaging story that caters to a clearly demonstrated unique superiority behind your product.

If all these things can function together and complement each other, why wouldn't you want to have that, just to maximise your chances of success?

Ian Paget: Yeah. I absolutely agree with that. I attended a training course with Marty Neumeier last year. He's got something called, Level C. I don't know if you've come across that. But one of the exercises that we use within the project that we did over the space of the two days was to write down perceived expectations of an industry. So, our particular one was the vehicle industry. And we was looking at carriages in particular to disrupt that space.

And one of the assumptions that we wrote down is that you have to take your car to the garage to get an MOT or whatever. So, we were thinking... and so, what the exercise was, is you would write that down. And then, you would do the opposite of that. So, an idea could be, okay. So, the garage comes to you. So, if you write down all these perceived expectations, like I don't always trust the garage. You don't know if they're actually doing what they're saying that they're doing.

What if you had a business that you could trust and it was transparent, and you could see everything that they was doing, and I found that to be a really quick, simple, easy exercise for coming up with potential ideas to have a very distinct, unique selling point.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, doing things differently than your competition. Maybe there's a good reason people are doing things that way. But also, maybe it's a fault of the industry. Going against expectations can work for you or against you. And it could, again, be something as simple as the personality like, I was working with a tax accountant a long time ago. What's the personality? You think of a tax expert, right? You're probably thinking of some bookworm accountant. You know what I mean, right?

Ian Paget: Yeah. Yeah.

Gregory V. Diehl: And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Maybe that's what you want in a guy whose focus is on the numbers of your life and making sure everything is filed exactly the way it's supposed to be. So, you don't go to jail. Maybe that's exactly what you want. I was helping this guy write a book about his tax experience and his professional expertise. And he, at first, really wanted to avoid putting too much of his personal story and his personality, even into the way the book was written.

He just wanted to get straight down to, "Here's what I'm an expert on. And here's what you need to know." Well, yeah. You definitely need to have that in there because that's what people are buying the book for. But I suggest, you at least put a strong introductory chapter, explaining who you are, how you got into this business, what you like to do in your free time. And as we work on the main content of the book, take some liberties with it.

Tell some jokes in there. Make some references to your personal life, so people feel like they have a sense of who you are and that you're more fun, and engaging, and have had a really unconventional life, not really the personality you would typically expect with a tax accountant. That will work to your advantage in this context, I strongly believe. And he was pretty hesitant about it at first, but we tested the book with beta readers, as I strongly believe in testing things against the marketplace before you just assume what's going to be successful.

And they agreed that many people, and there have been many reviews on the book on Amazon now. It's called, U.S. Taxes for Worldly Americans. You can see many reviews where people will specifically say, "Yeah, it was very thorough. I learned a lot of information. But also, I found this book so enjoyable to read compared to other textbooks I've read. I've been looking for something that wouldn't bore me and got straight, contained the information I wanted. But also, I just genuinely enjoyed reading what Olivier Wagner had to say about his very boring and dense subject."

So, that really worked out in his favour. And the book has been very successful in the last few years, and I think strongly because of that, beyond just the informational content itself. He did the opposite of what he thought he was supposed to do as a tax accountant, just because that's what people are used to.

Ian Paget: I love that story. I think that's a great example for any business owners that are listening for simple things that can really make a difference for your business. I don't think many people would immediately think of something like that.

Gregory V. Diehl: And again, it doesn't matter if every person in the world thinks that that's a good approach. Even if most people still prefer the conventional personality of what we think of as a tax accountant, he doesn't need to convince every person in the world. He just needs to convince a small subsection of the market who would prefer to work with him. That's all he needs, right? He has a thriving market there.

Ian Paget: Within your book, you do have a section on there about creating the identity of a brand. And I think for context, this is more to do with the actual underlying identity, the personality, and so on, rather than the visual side of it. So, there is a section in there about creating a personality profile. Could you share a little bit more about that as well, like what that means for a business, and how you would potentially use that information to your advantage?

Gregory V. Diehl: So, your personality is captured in everything visual or verbal about your business. You are a graphic designer. You obviously focus on things like logo design and what is the purpose of a logo. But to be memorable and to capture some personality that people are supposed to be associating with the business, right?

Ian Paget: Absolutely.

Gregory V. Diehl: And so, to me, it's very much putting the cart before the horse to come in and say, "Well, what colour should our logo be?" Well, how the heck are you supposed to know if you haven't even asked what are people supposed to be thinking of my business, right? Are we supposed to have a strong domineering presence or a meek welcoming presence? Do we want that bold blood red or the light sky blue? All of these things are conclusions that you should come to by first asking these basic philosophical personality questions.

How is it that we want people to see us and interact with our intangible personality? So, that obviously comes across individuals, things like logo design and colour schemes that you choose. But also, again, going back to the medium of books, the way that Olivier chose to write about a boring subject in a fun, friendly conversational way, doesn't change the actual value of the information, the instructions for how to fill out different tax forms, or the numbers used didn't change, right?

But it was more enjoyable to read that information. It made you want to keep turning the pages. You felt like you knew Olivier after you read his book. That's all personality. It has nothing to do with how actually useful the information is for your taxes.

Ian Paget: I know you mentioned in the book that once you've set on a personality, that should dictate everything. So, you've already said the personality or writing, the personality, the visual brand as well, that all makes sense. And you do mention that if you go outside, there's this disconnect. So, defining that personality profile is quite important. Are there any tools or approaches that you could use to work out what that is? Because I think for a lot of companies, that's quite an abstract thing to think about.

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, this goes back to my earlier comments about being manipulative and deceptive. I never advocate that anybody would do anything that's utterly inauthentic. And that's easier to understand when you're a small business. And it's like one people or a small group of people making these kinds of decisions about how the business will be represented. Well, who are we, and what do we stand for?

If you're talking about a massive corporation, then it almost has to be artificially constructed by just the sheer necessity of the size and these very calculated decisions people are making. How do we want our customer base all over the world to perceive us? But let's assume that you're a small- to medium-sized business and you've got to start with authenticity. Who actually are you? You don't have to capture... your whole personality can certainly be curated parts of your personality, but it can't be fake. It can't be phoney.

Because eventually, the truth will seep through. And if you start acting out of character, so to speak, people get a sense of betrayal from your brand. "I learned to associate you in one way. And now, you're acting a different way. Why? Where did that come from? Was that just a calculated move because you thought that would be better?" It's really no different than if you're watching a movie or reading a book, and a character you're really invested in and that you feel like you've come to know over the course of the story, suddenly starts acting very different because they changed writers or something, right?

And then, now suddenly, you don't feel like you know who this person is. Superman shouldn't be mean to puppies. That's the exact opposite of what I expect Superman to do. You would say, "That doesn't feel like Superman at all. Who is this imposter here?" Right? You would sooner assume that it was an imposter and not the real Superman. Then, you would assume, "Well, he just changed his personality. It happens. People change." No, you can't accept that. Because one of his core-defining attributes is, he's a nice guy who helps people, right?

Ian Paget: So... sorry to dig into the whole personality side. It's something I'm interested in because of what I personally do. But you keep saying that companies should have a personality. But is there a list of personalities that companies could look at? Or is it just a case of working out based on what you know about people and their individual personality? So, high-level stuff? Like fun or serious, or things like that? Or is there more to it that people can learn about?

Gregory V. Diehl: I mean, those things are fine. Obviously, there are general adjectives that will apply to whatever you end up being. There are only so many words in the English language to describe human behaviour and personality. So, to quote another author, "It starts with why." Right? Why did you start the company? Why did you design your product the way you did? Why are you doing anything you're doing? Because that's really the core of your personality, at least, as it's relevant to your business.

And so, if part of the reason why you started your business and why you chose to do things that you're doing, is because you want to have fun and want your customers to have fun. Then, fun should probably be part of your public personality, right? If you did it because you want people to have a sense of security at home, like you sell insurance or deadbolt locks for people's doors, or security cameras, or something, then that should probably be represented in your personality somehow, right?

Because that's really not the same thing as like, "Well, I want to put security cameras in my house because I want to have fun at home." No, it's because you want to protect your home, right? You want that sense of security and reliability. That's a different emotional flavour than fun. Not that there's anything wrong with fun.

Ian Paget: How it seems some people do this type of thing is I think I heard that Michael Bierut sometimes asks, "If your company was a car, what car would it be?" And then, that helps provide that clarity for how they picture it. And then, once you know which car they're choosing, then you can dissect that down to words and take it in that direction.

Gregory V. Diehl: Sure. I gave an example of a car earlier. What is the personality? What are the values associated with a car that is made to go off-roading and have lots of cargo space, right? What person uses that car? What are the ways they use it versus a sports car or a pickup truck? All of these things are designed in a car. And its basis form is just an engine and wheels, and a place for a driver and passengers to sit, to move them from point A to point B. Every car ever made is that in its purest form.

But then, there's so much variation put on top of that, right? Endless, endless amounts of variation. And that's true of everything. I was buying furniture recently from my house. I went to buy just a simple table for the room I do most of my work in. And what is a table in its basest form? It's a flat surface to put things on or sit down it, right? It seems like you can't get much simpler than that. But the variety of tables available to me was astounding in shape, in size, in materials made of, and the aesthetic behind them.

A dining room table versus a study table, versus a workbench. And you would insist it needs to be a round table. Is it going to go in a corner? Is it going to match the colour of the walls of the room we're going to put it in? Do we want it to be made out of wood or plastic, or metal? And are we going to spend just a couple hundred dollars or a couple thousand dollars on it? All of them serve the same basic function of a flat surface to put stuff on.

So, if you can imagine something as simple as that in principle, it can have so much variety, catering so many different little minute differences in buyer needs. Then, obviously, a car is going to have way more as a fantastically much more complicated piece of machinery, and just about anything you could possibly sell. If you look at it beyond just the basic function that it serves, there's always room for more variation.

Ian Paget: Definitely. And that's a fantastic example when you think of something as simple as a flat surface to put stuff on, and you see the vast variety of things that you can buy at different prices. And I know when I've gone furniture shopping, if you look at a table that costs 10,000 pounds, you can see that it costs that. There's just some aesthetic to it that really screams quality. And I think it's not always just the table. It's the whole experience around that when you're choosing it as well.

When you go into certain shops, you just know right away that that particular product is going to be particularly expensive.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. And that was all just in one store that I went to. Now, imagine all the stores that sell different kinds of table in all the world. It's mind-boggling.

Ian Paget: Yeah. And like I said, it's a fantastic example because it's so basic that the possibilities for any other product or industry is phenomenal. So, I want to go back to the story. So, we've spoken for the last 40 minutes about this. And so far, we have lots of individual components that can make a story, but it's not yet a story. So, how do you go about forming that into a story? And what would that look like? Is it a sentence just wrote down in words? Or is it a book? I mean, how does this look?

Gregory V. Diehl: It depends entirely on your uses for it. When we talk about things like taglines and slogans, and elevator pitches, those are all commonly used mediums of expression. And what they're all expressing is the story in one form or another. An elevator pitch will have different applications and possibilities in a one-sentence tagline, right? And a brochure will have different applications than a book written about your industry or the website content of your website, right?

Gregory V. Diehl: All of these things. I tend to focus mostly on the verbal because I'm a writer and a talker. But obviously, it applies just as much to things like the visual element, the functionality of the website will be part of the story of how they interact with your brand, of course. And you really just need to know what it is you're trying to accomplish. We can assume that there will be certain things that apply to almost every business. And in the modern age, almost every business needs a website, right? So, you're going to have to have something written on that website.

Some websites will have a lot more content than others. But there probably have to be something explaining, "This is who we are. This is what we do. This is why we're unique in some way. And this is why you should care and choose to give us your money or your contact information." That's a good place to start. I find for most people, if you're just really trying to encapsulate your story, start with your website content. Why not? You're going to need that anyway. And it's enough where you have enough space to experiment with three to five pages of content, for example.

You don't have to try to cram it all into one paragraph to get that just perfectly worded elevator pitch that can come later, if you need it. So, give yourself the space to explore with, "This is who we are. This is how we get started. This is what makes our product unique and interesting." Go on for a few paragraphs and see later. Cut out the parts that aren't so essential. And eventually, you'll have something that is short enough to read in several minutes but is complete enough that it actually communicates something of substance.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess for a startup, this could be a few sentences. But as companies become bigger, the story will grow and develop, and become its own organic thing. And I'm going to use Apple again, as an example, to paint how I see this. So, I've been an Apple user for a long time. I obviously know the origin story. But then, there are things like autobiographies, books. You can find out about the founders of the company. And then, there's films about these books and stuff like that. I guess, all of that.

And Apple is an extreme example because there are lots of books and lots of films, and things like that. I guess that all really contribute to what the story is and how that story is communicated with the audience.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. But the Apple's had decades to grow all the different forms that their story can take such as autobiographies of guys like Steve Jobs. And that's probably not something most businesses need to be thinking about right away.

Ian Paget: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Gregory V. Diehl: But books in general, I find if you have something important to say, and a nonfiction book about your industry, not necessarily like your life story, but like, "Hey, here's something really valuable. I've learned working in this industry." Or, "Here's the complete guide to everything you need to know about how to do your taxes," this kind of way, right? That can absolutely be a great way to both sell a product that is, in and of itself, valuable because it will have valuable information within the book.

But at the same time, also, get your story out there and build a brand reputation for yourself, and make people want to interact with you. Because if they can get through 50,000 words you wrote about a subject and they still want to talk to you, then they probably have a pretty good idea of what kind of person you are and what your personality is.

Ian Paget: Okay. So, from this conversation, we understand why we need a story. We've worked out how to create a good story. And that's by finding your value, your unique selling point within the context of your business compared to your competitors. And also, seeing that from the perspective of the customer as well. So, you've now created a story, being that just a sentence or a few pages of content. How do you go about telling that story to make your product irresistible to your customer?

Gregory V. Diehl: People have to believe what you say, right? The most important quality, I would try to communicate to people no matter what industry you're in or what your story ends up being, is authenticity which itself turns into something like conviction. That people believe you're doing what you're doing in your business for a reason because you believe in it authentically. So, if you can capture that in every written form that represents your brand or the visual ways you end up representing a brand, then that's what, in my opinion, will lead most small- to medium-sized businesses to the greatest amount of market capture.

Because people will have a stronger reason to want to choose and stay with your brand, not just because it was initially appealing to them for some specific reason. But because after using it enough times and interacting with the personality of your brand, they really believe that you are who you say you are. And you're doing what you're doing because you have reasons for doing what you're doing. And they agree with those reasons. And they believe in them.

If you can capture that authenticity... and we haven't even talked about things like video content. I completely haven't thought that. But obviously, that's an even more powerful way, in many cases, to capture your personality. A picture is worth 1,000 words, but a video is worth 1,000 pictures, right? If you can get yourself or whoever represents your company on camera talking sincerely, representing this is who we are and why we're doing it and why you should care, I mean, that's worth everything.

That is the best way to attract the right people and keep them.

Ian Paget: Oh, yeah. And I think with story, just in the space of the 45 minutes we've been speaking, I can imagine if people work through just these exercises alone, it would provide a lot of clarity. And I think in terms of telling that story, be that through a headline, on a website, or a piece of content, or an advertisement like a TV advertisement or banners, the possibilities are absolutely endless. And the scale of how something as simple as a story can be used is phenomenal, really.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. And in the end, marketing really just becomes about, "How do I promote my story more? How do I get more people to read my story or engage with my story?" Which is a much nicer way to think about it, I think, than just trying to get the maximum amount of impressions and conversions, and all that stuff.

Ian Paget: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It is much more inspiring, not just for your target customer. I think as a business owner, a founder, or a member of the team working for that company, it's a hell of a lot more inspiring to be telling this story. I mean, everyone loves a good origin story. And they like to know where this thing came from and why it exists, and why it matters, and how it actually makes people's lives better. That's so much more fulfilling than just a list of features. Having a story will impact so many people inside a business as well as outside.

Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah. So, if you take nothing else away from this, just try to start looking at your business in a different way and asking some of these personal, sometimes uncomfortable questions. And when you start thinking about your business differently, it will also start to show up differently in how you represent the business.

Ian Paget: Yeah, absolutely. So, within this, we've provided a surface level for people to start thinking about doing this. And just with the information from this alone, I think it will help people. But for anyone that wants to dive deep into this, how can they go about doing that? I know we've already mentioned that one book. But do you have any other tools? Or are there any other resources that you could potentially recommend to us?

Gregory V. Diehl: Well, obviously, I think my book, Brand Identity Breakthrough, is pretty gosh, darn amazing. There are a lot of other books, though.

Ian Paget: It's very good. Yeah.

Gregory V. Diehl: I think so.

Ian Paget: Just that you're not blowing your own trumpet, I have to admit, it's a very, very good book. And I obviously reached out to you. And you can hear, just by talking to you through this, you speak very articulately. You've obviously thought a lot about this topic. And if you can imagine condensing that down into a book, it's obviously going to be very good. So, yeah. I would highly recommend it. I'll just stop you from blowing your own trumpet.

But I do recommend the book to both business owners and any designer, or anyone that's interested in branding, brand identity, anything like that. I think it's a great book.

Gregory V. Diehl: Sure. And on that subject, you can probably get a pretty clear sense of my personality just by listening to me talk or by reading what's in the book. That would be another perfect example of, it's not just about the information I'm talking about. But my personality will probably be distinct from other people even who talk about the same subject, or write about the same subject. There are a lot of other writers who I think do a pretty good job of writing about this, like Simon Sinek.

He tends to write about a lot of the same things that's really getting to the purposes behind your business and those philosophical insights about why you're doing what you're doing. That's really my whole focus. And I'm also a personal development author. And I find it's not really that much different writing about business and writing about personal development. It's just a slightly different focus, but a lot of the same questions that you have to ask in order to make this progress are quite similar.

So, if you take lessons away from reading a philosophy book or a personal development book that helps you reframe your life differently, can you extrapolate those same kinds of questions to your business? Can you think of your business as just an extension of yourself? That's the tool that I find really useful for people.

Ian Paget: And I would say, I know there's a lot of branding books out there. But of all of them that I read, they're all very different. And even though there are overlapping themes, there's no set way of doing this stuff. I mean, even try finding a definition of branding. There isn't one single definition. So, I find just in general, reading and learning as much as you can about branding, and a lot of people that will be listening to this, they might be that they are most likely graphic designers.

But in the context of what we're talking about here, it's the underlying brand of the business, the language, the personality, the USP, all that sort of stuff. And I think for graphic designers, understanding that is absolutely fundamental. So, you've mentioned through this conversation about, as a designer, you don't just make up colours. You don't just randomly pick, "Oh, I'm going to pick red." You pick a red because you're trying to communicate some element of personality, whether that's something that the client has provided.

They've given you some kind of personality profile for you to try and get across. Or that's something you've worked out by speaking to and understanding the goals of the client. So, understanding all this stuff about business and branding will absolutely make you a much better logo designer, identity designer and so on.

Gregory V. Diehl: I agree completely. Yeah.

Ian Paget: Well, Gregory, this has been absolutely fantastic. We've been able to pack in a lot in this time. And it's been really good. So, I hope the listeners will have enjoyed it. So, Gregory, thank you so much for your time. It's been absolutely amazing.

Gregory V. Diehl: Thanks for having me.